Urban Warfare expert John Spencer says the conflict in Gaza is unlike any other. Spencer tells Robyn Curnow about his four trips into Gaza with the IDF since the October 7 massacre. As a combat veteran, national security and military analyst, he has served as an advisor to Pentagon to the U.S. Military Academy. Israel's fight in Gaza is unique in modern warfare, he says.

"Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza was the first one I've studied where the underground was more important than the surface."

He says in other wars, tunnels are used by civilians to seek refuge.

But Hamas uses them as an underground network to base their operations. They're

→ where the fighters are

→ where the hostages are

→ their primary means of conducting operations

Hamas initially were able to use them to slow IDF operations.

But the fighting changed when Israel brought their fight into the tunnels too.

John Spencer talks to Robyn Curnow about his groundbreaking access and research on urban warfare. His manual on fighting in cities was used by Ukrainians to defend their towns and cities and villages against the Russian advance.

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JOHN SPENCER

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CHAIR OF URBAN WARFARE STUDIES, MODERN WAR INSTITUTE AT WEST POINT

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HOST of the URBAN WARFARE PROJECT PODCAST

AUTHOR: CONNECTED SOLDIERS

AUTHOR: UNDERSTANDING URBAN WARFARE